Business Process Guru Dick Lee of High Yield Methods

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Some Pointed Opinions on the CRM World

I recently had the extreme pleasure to conduct an interview with business process guru Dick Lee. If you follow my site, his name will sound familiar since his writings have shaped much of my current view of the CRM World.

Dick has written a lot about CRM, customer-centricity and front office workflow both in books, his CustomerThink blog and on his website High Yield Methods. If you don't follow him, you should really set some time aside to read what he has to say, because he's been doing this since before even Contact Management was around.  In fact, there are scores of high quality articles writers and bloggers at CustomerThink.com that are worth checking out. There really is no other resource like it on the Internet.

Dick has written a really good whitepaper that explains a technique he developed for realigning front office work flows and their supporting work processes. This really got me supercharged on this topic because I really had no idea how a back office framework like Six Sigma could screw up the front office. But now I know.

So without further babbling from me, I introduce to you the business process guru Dick Lee (DL):

MB: For those who haven't read books like "The Customer Relationship Management Survival Guide", how did you get into the CRM world in the first place?

DL: Within the constraints of available tools, I’ve been practicing customer-centric business since the late 1970s. To me, SFA software was just a new tool, although too limited to help much. Same with CRM software, which provided better support. So rather than “enter” the CRM world, I was already there.

MB: Were you ever tempted to go down the "software is the solution" path like so many of us have, even just to make a buck?

DL: No. By the time the software arrived, my perspective that CRM is a way of conducting business was firmly in place.

MB: How do you define CRM when you're asked?

DL: Very simply. “CRM adds value to customers in ways that add value back to the company.”

MB: Is customer loyalty really the only competitive differentiator left, and how long before we see software that can manage that out of the box?

DL: I view customer loyalty as an outcome. The differentiator in achieving that outcome is process, often but not always enabled by technology, not technology itself.

MB: Is it all about looking at your company through the customer's eyes, or is there more to it? Maybe you should walk us through your Visual Workflow process so we understand how you take work flow and work process from "as is" to "to be" and why it's so important to do this? And why are other methodologies problematic?

DL: In order to align strategy to customers, the strategic planning process should reflect the customer’s perspective, not the company’s. Once a customer-centric strategy is articulated, business process must be aligned to strategy (as well as to customer interests and preferences). Then technology has to align to process.

MB: What are the most significant and common mistakes you see companies make as it relates to their quest for the CRM Holy Grail?

DL: Number one, implementing technology first. Number two, unwillingness to change organizationally to really become more customer-centric. Number three, failing to get line-level input throughout CRM planning and implementation. Number four, lack of measurement or measuring the wrong activities and outcomes.

MB: Can you share a couple of significant successes that can help to place your vision of CRM into context for those that still may not get it?

DL: I’ll cite two, but I don’t like to reveal too much about client strategies. In the first case, a company with a 2,000 person sales and service staff decided to implement CRM. Fortunately, the person designated to lead the project really knew his stuff, and he fought off attempts to lead with software. And then he prevented the company’s Six Sigma contingent from getting anywhere near the process redesign, which included not only the front office but went far into the back office as well.

Our combined efforts reduced the number of sales/service people needed to 1,200 while increasing throughput potential. We also cleared out a number of long-standing, customer-unfriendly business rules and policies that were negatively affecting customer relationships. Oh, and the client did implement Siebel 6.0, but streamlining the organization to get the focus on customers was the big win.

In the second case, we helped a multi-location financial institution implement CRM. We started by developing customer-centric strategies, including conducting primary research that demonstrated this FI had numerous preconceptions of its market make-up and sources of profitability.

But when we started redesigning process to support strategies, we found so much chewing gum and bailing wire holding operations together that we had to redesign process across the board, from the teller stations all the way back to finance, compliance and HR. In doing so, we eliminated redundant functions, consolidated other functions, radically improved throughput and even took out a layer of management – while greatly improving the customer experience. We even developed several new products and product packages that fit their customer base.

Only after all this work was complete did we select a software system, which the client subsequently implemented after configuring the application to properly support redesigned process.

MB: Besides a contradictory mentality, what are the biggest hurdles that face traditional CRM VARs as it relates to incorporating the appropriate process consulting onto the front end of a new client relationship. For that matter, how hard would it be to go back and address this with seemingly happy customers?

DL: Up front, to accommodate process redesign (and customer-centric planning, if needed), the VAR has to wait for the sale much longer than if leading with software. The second issue is that process design may dictate use of a system other than the VAR sells. Fortunately, within their categories CRM packages are beginning to approach parity, making the “wrong software” scenario much less of a risk.

Post technology implementation, redesigning process after the fact can streamline process, reduce staffing requirements and add value to customers, so it’s well worth doing. But the results will rarely be as good as designing process before implementing technology.

MB: For CRM "consultants" that may be enlightened by this discussion, can they be trained to do the sort of consulting your company does, or is it better to simply partner up with more experienced consultancies? By the way, how many experienced consultancies are there "that get it" to partner up with?

DL: This is an interesting question. We are always happy to help train other consultants by partnering with them on one of their implementations. The tricky part is Visual Workflow. We worked with an excellent consultancy recently that had all the tools except the process piece. Initially, we were supposed to train them in VW. But not long after we started, the founder and CEO decided he wanted to partner with us on VW because he felt we brought so much experience to the table that his folks wouldn’t do as good a job. We now carry their business cards when working with them, and we have a great relationship.

MB: Do you have any new books or guides in the pipeline? Or, do you have any existing publication(s) out there that people can pick up that expands on this discussion?

DL: I’ve had a couple of false starts on new books, partly because I’ve been torn between writing about customer-centricity or process. I’ve finally decided on the latter, and I’m hoping to get writing next month. In the interim, we’re launching a revamped website that’s very content rich, and I write frequently for CustomerThink.

If you're looking for a business process guru for the front office, High Yield Methods and Dick Lee are the people to call

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